I do alot of camping up here in Maine. My Westie is a faithful companion. I would not of noticed the problem had you guys not mentioned it, thats the upside to this letter. The downside would have been me writing you about another Primo van going up in flames!
Thanks and keep up the great service you are providing to us die hards. I have already called my other Westie companions who don't have computors and told them about this problem. Who know's, you might of saved another one from the rathe of fire.
If you ever want to cruise some prime wilderness for some camping come to Maine. I am a licensed Wilderness Guide up here and would share freely any info I can to make your trip more enjoyable. (there are alot of van parts availible here as well)
Thanks again. Tim Spotted Wolf E-mail: Sayatanka@aol.com
Webpage: http://members.aol.com/sayatanka/index.html
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Subject:
Bus Fires
Just found your site courtesy of VW Custom & Classic - I was very interested in your story about the gas fumes and the bad advise from Click & Clack. I heard that same show and called them to correct, but I never heard any acknowledgement on the show. I found the same problem with my '72, and I also thought it prudent to replace the 1001 pieces of small rubber tubing that connect the tank with the various metal vent tubes or whatever they are that run up into the rear corners of the engine compartment and into the charcoal canister. Mine were all pretty dried out and loose, and in the VW tradition had been a press fit (no clamps). I don't know for sure if this mattered, since I changed these at the same time that I changed the filler tube, but if these tubes carry fumes or fuel overflow, it would make sense that they would at least contribute to the problem. Enjoyed your site!
6/9/97 11:23 AM Keith Douglas
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The problem also applies to the fuel pump. The knurling procedure mentioned in several of my articles ('Fuel Pump Poop' is one of them) makes a very good fix but it's important to not put an in-line filter in the line to the carb. The added mass contributes to the problem.
I still prefer threaded fuel-line fittings. And no fuel filters in the engine compartment.
The other most common cause of engine compartment fires results from failure of the grommet where the fuel line passes through the forward breast tin. One of my articles describes how to make a bulkhead fitting from a threaded lamp ferrule.
'My' web page, which you've so kindly pointed people toward, isn't really mine. The articles were collected by others and archived at their expense. Mr. Ken Hooper is the present archivist.
-Bob Hoover
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I enjoyed reading your warning about the tube coming loose from the Solex carb. I had this happen to me once many years ago while going down I-10 near Lafayette. I was lucky to smell the fumes in time and stop the car before the bug went up in flames! I used some epoxy glue which seems to have worked.
It is understood that you use glue at your own risk!
Paul Schoppe / Pineville, Louisiana
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I was just surfing through all(ok some)of the VW related web pages and found yours(ok it was first on the list). I run a small shop in Texas and like all othe rest of fine VW mechanics have seen my fair share of smoked vedubs.
Like the inlet nipple coming out of the carb., I have also seen the inlet and outlet tube on the older stock(and if their still out there)replacement aluminum fuel pumps,so dont just stop looking at the carb nipple be sure to check everything in the fuels path in the engine bay.
If your not satisfied with glueing or peening the press in fuel nipple back in place you can check with a local hose and pipe manufacturing shop or a local aircraft supply shop for a threaded nipple that will fit in the carb. or fuel pump body.While the search for the appropriate supplier for such a fitting might seem hard or time consuming sometimes peace of mind is worth almost everything.Also be sure to get (if you dont have one) the proper tap for the fitting.
Matthew Folbre,
Matthew Folbre Enterprises
Keller,Texas
E-mail txvwnut@flash.net
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I just want to say that since I read you fire hazard alert I have told others. It came to mind again when two sunday's ago I watched a 73' or 74' Westy burn. When I came upon the it, the fire dept. was there and it was totally engulfed. I have heard about this becuase my dad was a VW mechanic for 12 years (when air cools was all that VW made) but I have never seen it. Needless to say it almost brought tears to my eyes thinking about it being my 67' camper or my 72' double door panel ( I am still working on that one) I am going to make sure and look over all the fuel stuffs on it so that won't happen to mine! Also you may want to mention that you should have hose clamps on all your fuel lines, this my father taught me and I have found alot people who never check that. Your web page is cool and if you guys didn't live so far from me (Eugene, OR) I would be bugging you (that could be a good thing I guess*smile*) Thanks,
Kathy
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Hi there,
I don't own a type II but I am a type I owner. Nevertheless I heard this story of a guy I know. This guy's parents owned (note the past tense) a 197..something type II camper. The guy's sister (it's becoming a family story now...maybe make a binary tree of it..) took it, together with some friends, on a holiday to Hongary or something. While driving, suddenly they noted a lot of smoke coming of the rear of their camper. They stopped and examined the smoke coming out of the air-vents at the back. One of the girls suggested that the engine must be boiling... But after seeing the flames coming out of the bus they knew it was something else. The entire bus burned out completely...
At home this guy told this story at a VW-store who told him that this was a common bug on these buses, the hose gets worn out and spills all the gas over the engine. He should have known that earlier...
After reading your fire-hazard story I thought I had to tell you this story.
Greetings from the Netherlands, Gerrelt Molhoek.
PS: Great page!
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Hiya! Like your page; John Muir would be proud... Your fire warning is very true. I once had a 66' bug that popped the brass tube on some highway somewhere. Somehow no fire started on my hot engine, but it scared the hell out of me anyway. And, like you, I also thought it was just some rare fluke. Thanks- Bob
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Just ran across your page, and I'd have to agree with one of your
correspondents: "John Muir WOULD be proud...".
Story 1: In the early '70's, friends driving a '59 Type 1 had the carb. fuel inlet tube pop out of their Solex (original equipment). They were stopped in front of our church at the time, and the Fire Dept. was called immediately and arrived within 3 minutes.
By the time the F.D. arrived on the scene, that old Bug was a gutted, smoking, hulk. The fire exploded (this word is chosen carefully, I was a witness) up into the interior through the cargo area behind the rear seat, and the headliner was instantly obliterated. The dashboard lit up next, followed by the seats and the rest of the trim and floor mats. My friends and their infant (the baby was in the back seat!) barely escaped with their lives.
The steel body and floor pan did not burn, although the rear tires were completely burned off the rims. The fuel tank did not burn or explode, though God alone knows why. The usual odds & ends stored in the boot/trunk were incinerated. The engine burned ( yes, aluminum & magnesium do burn), leaving only the iron & steel components in the engine compartment. They were warped almost beyond recognition.
Someone coming on this scene uninformed would surely have thought the vehicle was the target of a terrorist bomb, and that all persons within had been consumed in the fire.
Story 2: As one with VW experience dating back to the mid-50's, with firsthand experience with the devastating effects of air-cooled VW engine fires (see Story 1), I've always taken the precaution of reworking the Solex carb. fuel inlet tube to prevent the tube from blowing out of the carb. body.
Despite my caution and precautions, I've had this failure occur on my 1970 Type 2. Although I was travelling at 60MPH, the fuel didn't ignite and a fire was prevented by quick action. Old people can move with amazing speed when properly (or improperly) motivated!
By the way, this problem is common to most European carbs. but Solex seems to be the worst offender. With all their vaunted engineering skills, it never ceases to amaze me what crummy fuel hoses and connections are found on German cars in particular (but also on Italian, French & English vehicles). Push-on fuel connections (without a single clamp anywhere) seem to be de riguer.
With water-cooled engines the fire hazard is somewhat less due to lower engine operating temperatures, but the danger is still very real. When that fuel inlet tube pops out, there's no shortage of fuel/air mixture and 1 spark is all it takes!
A rebuild shop (specializing in European carbs.) that used to operate in the Seattle area remanufactured the fuel inlet tube connection on all carbs. coming through their shop. They had found a source in Europe that made a kit for the job. The stock inlet tube was removed, and the carb. was threaded to receive a special fitting. A special Loctite-like resin was used to "weld" the threaded fitting in place, and the problem was solved permanently.
A quick roadside fix for a loose and/or seeping inlet tube is to pull the tube out of the carb. (it's a good idea to turn off the engine first) and "knurl" the tube with a pair of ordinary slip-joint pliers. The tube can then be CAREFULLY driven back into the carb. using a plastic screwdriver handle (or something similar). This will solve the problem until a proper repair can be accomplished.
Fred Stoermer
(206) 752-6332 vox (206) 752-0474 fax
klamjoose@msn.com OR FMH3ST@gnn.com
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This is an addendum to my previous message on this subject.
The standard/stock MECHANICAL fuel pump on the upright fan VW engine is driven off the camshaft. As long as the engine is turning over, the pump will continue to spew fuel all over the hot engine.
The engine doesn't have to be RUNNING for this to occur. If the TRANSAXLE is in gear (as in driving down the freeway in 4th at 60MPH) and the CLUTCH is engaged, the engine will continue to turn over and the fuel pump will continue to pump EVEN IF THE IGNITION IS TURNED OFF.
A VW equipped with an ELECTRIC fuel pump (assuming the pump is properly wired) will continue to pump fuel all over the hot engine as long as the ignition is on.
Many VW owners/drivers (nothing personal, folks) simply have no idea of the intricacies/ideosyncracies of their trusty steed's fuel system. Therefore, at the first hint of a fuel leak in the engine compartment the prudent VW driver will IMMEDIATELY do the following:
With luck you may save your engine and/or vehicle. You may very well save your life.
If you are a rabid VW fanatic, fatalistic, and heavily into modern day Viking funerals, disregard this information and die happily (and hotly)!
Warm regards (no pun intended).....
Fred Stoermer
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jwestend@aol.com writes:
When I purchased my 1972 camper, it, too had gas fumes in the interior. Since there were no leaks in the fuel lines to the motor, I figured the problem must lie with the fuel tank and its associated hoses. I was pulling the motor anyway for a rebuild, so after it was out I pulled off the large access panel to the fuel tank (not the small round panel off to the side, but the one that pretty much makes up the front of the engine compartment). Once the cover was removed, I could see stains made by gasoline spilling all over the fuel tank compartment. Pretty scary! Upon inpection I noticed that the problem was with the little rubber elbow that connects the fuel tank vent to the tank itself. Over the years, the continued exposure to gasoline had dried out this little guy to the point that it had just given up trying to do its job and cracked to pieces. As a result, every time I accelerated, gasoline would pour out the vent hole. I guess I'm lucky I never burned.
I went to VW for a new rubber elbow ($10.00, ouch!) but what they gave me was made from a hard plastic and wouldn't fit over the vent tube, so I had to improvise a fix. I used about 18 inches of plain rubber hose in a loop attached with hose clamps. Make sure the loop lays above the vent and not below, so gasoline won't collect in the hose, preventing gases from flowing through it.
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